Well, if CARVILLE says so.... but let's get Keith O. and Conason's opinions just to be sure.

Question to you. Simple yes or no. Do you think Jews need to be "perfected"? Just YES or NO.

Carville's a disgrace.

Here he had a prime opportunity to really nail this woman-- it was handed him on a plate. Instead, he waffles, he weasels, he dances around the issue-- no emphatic language, nothing! 

Why won't anyone in the MSM call this woman what she is: an anti-Semite? She' gone too far this time-- if only people will say something. 

At one point it sounded like Carville was going to call her a b*tch.

He should have! Dems don't know how to fight hard, so they hand over all the issues, all the spin, to the Right.

carville called it a "hideous comment".  and more. 

He should have! Dems don't know how to fight hard, so they hand over all the issues, all the spin, to the Right.

My Momma had a saying 'You lay down with dogs you wake up with fleas'.

I think she was just warning you about std's.

Why attack Carville for failing to call Coulter an anti-semite?  Other than expose her for what she is, why does Wolf Blitzer ask a question which he, as a Jew, could easily answer?  Why didn't Blitzer challenge Coulter's friend Terry Jeffery who asserted that she was NOT an anti-semite?  Does he (Jeffery) mean that we didn't hear what we heard?  Was Coulter misquoting herself?  Do we really need to delve into what she meant?  You mean she wasn't sufficiently clear?   In fact, one could just as easily ask Deutch why HE didn't tell Coulter to her face that the sentiment she expressed on his show (The Big Idea?) was an expression of classic anti-semitism.  Based on Coulter's accumulated expressions of hatred for whoever disagrees with her, no true Christian's can argue that Coulter represents anything other than the antithesis of Christianity!  That so many Republicans claiming to be good, moral Christians regard her as their standard-bearer proves only what consummate hypocrites they are.  Regardless the number with crosses on their necks or their lapels, Coulter's pronouncements and the people defending her make a mockery of Christianity.  Regardless their pretense of supporting Israel, such people are essentially anti-semites!  It's appalling that Coulter is tmaking the rounds on the major networks thereby earning legitimacy for her vile pronouncements.  She belongs in a sty or its intellectual equivalent--FOX news! 

You're right-- you're just proving my point. No one in the MSM ever challenges these people adequately. Never.

They hem, they haw, they make excuses, they joke around-- and meanwhile, the bad guys get away with murder. 

Think the Republicans act like that? No way.  That's why they are always calling the shots. Oh, but if a Dem makes some kind of comment--real or imagined-- all of a sudden everything's a scandal.

well your point is that carville is a disgrace because he "waffled".  no he didn't,  he called it a hideous comment and said he had not talked to a jewish friend who was not offended.  

In getting worked up over Blitzer's selectively edited version to his guests (Carvelle and Jeffery) of Deutsch interviewing Coulter, I mischaracterized Donny's reaction.  Fortunately, MMFA did run a clip of the original interview. To his credit, Deutsch DID let her know in no uncertain terms that her views WERE anti-semitc and that he WAS offended. Coulter's assertion that Deutsch was not a practising Jew and thus should not have been offended, in addition to the fact that she did not MEAN to offend him, merely underscores how dense, deaf and myopic she is.  Which again leads one to wonder aloud: What and why do news organizations offer her a stage to spew her bile? Of course, this IS a rhetorical question.  The answer is fairly obvious.  News organizations are crumbling.  They've been replaced by propaganda machines and spin factories, most notably, FOX "News."  Sometimes I feel that CNN and Blitzer are hot on the FOX trail!

whillenbrand

I'm not an evangelical Christian.  But I understand what they mean by those terms: They want every person in the world to come into a "personal relationship with the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ."

I honestly cannot understand any believing Christian NOT wanting everyone to be saved.  

So let me ask you this question:  If you believe in Jesus Christ as your Savior, wouldn't you want everyone - including all your Jewish friends - to be saved?

Be honest. 

First, thats not what I asked you, yes or no, do you think Jews need to be perfected? Second, I have a real problem with anyone or any one religion, sect or faith telling another they must believe in Jesus to be saved. I'm a methodist from the mid west so I am just about as fundemental as anyone can be when it comes to my faith, and I do have faith, just as the Budhist, the Jew, the hindi, etc.  It's wrong to impose your beliefs on others. Its a sign of disrespect and religous egotism to believe I won't be saved unless I adopt your form of Christianity. Please don't devalue others beliefs because they are not yours although I could do with a little less three bean salads at the church suppers. So, YES or NO - Do Jews need to be perfected

 It's wrong to impose your beliefs on others.

I don't think that AC said anything about "imposing" her beliefs on anyone.  People come to a saving relationship with Christ through their own free will.

Again, I'm not an evangelical Christian.  But I know many who have shared their faith with me.  Especially that John 3:16 verse - they seem to think that people need to believe in Jesus to be "saved".

From your post I guess that Christianity is just one more lifestyle choice that a person could make - i.e., Should I be a Christian?  Or should I be Hindu or Buddhist?   And for lunch, maybe I should have a ham sandwich or a tuna sandwich?   Both choices are probably on a the same level, I assume.

Again, I'm not an evangelical Christian, so I'm just wondering. 

So, YES or NO - Do Jews need to be perfected

- whillenbrand / Thursday October 11, 2007 08:29:55 PM EST

whillenbrand

I'm willing to answer ... I'm wanting to answer ... I'm waiting to answer.

But before I do you have to tell me what you think AC means when she uses the words "make perfect".

After all, if I say "yes" or "no" it is important that we have some clarity.

she's asked  if  "we should just throw judaism away and we should all be christians"?   she answers "yeah".   what do you think that means?

Jesus H. Christ, BJ, you can't even answer a yes or no question without somebody else telling you how Annie-Christ wants you to answer it? It's 11pm PST now, she must have been on Fox to give you your instructions by now.

Currently 44 perfect numbers have been identified.

This should get you started. Why not do us a favor and spend your time productively by working out the rest of them:

6 = 1 + 2 + 3, 28 = 1 + 2 + 4 + 7 + 14, 496 = 1 + 2 + 4 + 8 + 16 + 31 + 62 + 124 + 248 8128 = 1 + 2 + 4 + 8 + 16 + 32 + 64 + 127 + 254 + 508 + 1016 + 2032 + 4064

DO JEWS NEED TO BE PERFECTED ?

YES OR NO ?

Same answer to you.  I'll answer this question AFTER you tell my what you think AC means when she says "make perfect" or "perfected".

I can wait. 

Just answer the question! DO YOU, not me, not coulter, not any one but YOU think that Jews need to be "Perfected" Your looking like a real weasel on this board by the way you avoid the question. Stand up and stand by your convictions. and another thing, your response to my comment was typical spin and avoidance. Anothers religion is NOT a "LIFESTYLE" choice. It's a spiritual decision. I'm offended and concerned that you have so little respect for other peoples beliefs to call it. "just another lifestyle choice" If you were not so insecure in your own spiritual convictions, you wouldn't be so eager to criticize others with such contempt. Perhaps you may have better luck outside the airport handing out flowers, or going door to door asking for quarters in exchange for a pamphlet. Coulter just called, she said answer the question!

Hi all,

I mentioned this in another thread. "Perfected" in a theological sense means to have come to a mature and fuller knowledge of God through knowing and following the teachings of Jesus.

Of course Jews believe differently than Christians, No astonishment there. And Jews undoubtedly feel that Christians have lost their way. 

I am not offended if Jews seek to convert Christians or try to point out why one should become a Jew. 

Ann is simply expressing a basic belief held by Christianity. Christians believe everyone should come to Jesus.

Deutch simply reacted with typical liberal outrage and decided to be offended instead of listening and understanding exactly what Coulter was trying to say. 

He is now lapping up all the ancillary publicity by being on the Today Show this morning and rather than clarifying the situation is instead exacerbating it by either being purposeful in misinterpreting Ann's comments or being incredibly dense about Christianity.

"I mentioned this in another thread. "Perfected" in a theological sense means to have come to a mature and fuller knowledge of God through knowing and following the teachings of Jesus."--anotheramerican

So you don't see that view is extremely patronizing to people who already believe their view of God is mature and full?

Am I to understand that in a "theological sense" Christians are "perfected Jews?"  That's good to know.  In the distant past, these "perfected Jews," namely, Christians lit up the landscape of Medieval Europe with auto-da-fes--burning entire Jewish communities.  Often, these good Christians tortured their Jewish victims into accepting conversion for the purpose of rescuing their souls from eternal damnation.  The torturer was seldom troubled that he was escorting his victime an early start to eternal damnation.  But that was long ago and it was sanction by institutional Christianity!

 In the not too distant past, a nominally Christian madman decided to implement the final solution of the Jewish problem.  Aided by many Lutherans (these are Christians, are they not?) and abetted by a Catholic Pope, Pius XII (a bit ironic, don't you think?), these "perfected" religionists murdered millions for the grand purpose of creating a better world.

Since the Reformation, the history of Europe is replete with war after war between one Christian community and another, one Christian nation and another.  Most of the people committing the atrocities associated with war probably shared a sincere belief in  "a personal relationship with the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ." More often than not, this belief (with the help of confession and absolution)  served each Christian soldier well in assuaging his conscience for the horrendous deeds committed in his loyalty to king and country.

 So, BILLIYBOBBONES, if you want me to be honest, I really don't care for your suppport of Ann Coulter and her blatant form of anti-semitism which you apparently share.  From my perspective, if you and she consider yourselves in any sense, theological or otherwise, more perfect beings, you're not merely sadly mistaken, you're dangerous idiots.

"I am not offended if Jews seek to convert Christians or try to point out why one should become a Jew."--anotheramerican

Of course, because Jews don't prosthelitize at all that I am aware of.  If by some chance you could even find an obscure example of it, it is nowhere near comparable to what Chrisitan churches do and have done historically.  That is a pretty disingenuous thing to try to draw a comparison on.

Your comparison is like - it is okay for them to do it, so it should be okay for us to do it...except they don't do it, so your supposed generosity has nothing to do with reality.

In fact, judaism actively DISCOURAGES converts.  At least, the Orthodx sect, anyhow.  You have to WORK and EARN the right to become a Jew.  They don't want some half-ass conversion made out of fear like most Christians seek.  They want to know that you NEED this faith.  So yeah...Jews don't actively proselytize.  

To my knowledge, only two faiths actively try to force everyone they meet to be like them...Radical, Fundamentalist Islam and Radical, Fundamentalist Christianity. 

Interesting that you mention that.  Muslims consider themselves "perfected Christians" as well.  It is their belief that Jesus will come back and convert the Christians to Islam. 

I wonder how Coulter or fundamentalist Christians would react to a polite conversation about that little tidbit.

Heh.  I find from personal experience that if you point out the similarities between the Taliban and - let's say Focus on the Family or the American Familiy Association, to name two biggies - Christians tend to throw a FIT.  The only REAL difference between the two is which version of the Desert Faith they follow and the level of power they have in their countries of origin.  

We all know that if the likes of Don Wildmon, James Dobson or, god forbid, Fred Phelps had control of this country the way the Muslim radicals control the Middle East there would be murders and lynchings and stonings on a regular basis. 

Exactly.  I like your style BTW.  It is also interesting to point out that the reason many parts of the Middle East are so messed up is the lack of influence of secular liberals over there to balance out their society from the fundamentalists.

Many parts of the Middle East would seem to be a conservative Utopia except it seems to American conservatives to be the wrong flavor of fundamentalism for their taste.

Thanks, Open.  I appreciate the compliment.  I've been reading this site for a good year or so, and as I am close friends with a number of people of the Jewish faith, both born to it and converted after the struggle, I have a major issue with people trying to say that Judaism is somehow flawed or "imperfect" or otherwise in need of correction or whatever.  While I do believe that Judaism, like all religions, need to accept that with the changing times come new facts and therefore need to evolve their beliefs appropriately, and say so to my friends - oh, the arguments we get into...LOL.  But that's a great way to communicate, friendly arguments. - I still respect them for following what is, essentially, a faith that has lasted several thousand years in a mostly unchanged form.  That takes dedication and is pretty darn near perfect in my eyes.  

Sorry for the bad spelling.  It should be "proselytize".

Open,

Proslytizing is a fundamental Christian belief.

Jesus' word, "Go and teach all peoples, baptize them, and teach them to hold all the things which I taught you to hold" (Mt 28:19f.; Mk 16:15)

That is one of the missions of the Church and has been since the Apostles.  

Jesus also said, although it did'nt make into the bible, "Give the starter twenty bucks, he'll get you on the first tee" and this gem, also not in the bible "Don't convert, concieve"

I know that.  I disagree with that belief for the same reason Ann is now getting skewered over it.  It doesn't make sense to me and never has on a logical level.

Luke 9:46-56 contains a brief, but rather telling passage in which the Apostles' pride gets the best of them and they act on three prideful impulses:  

* Pride of prominence, pushing for others' recognition of our being better than they (9:46-48),

* Pride of exclusiveness, wanting to squelch others who are ministering without belonging to my group or my denomination, and

* Pride of righteousness, seeking to punish our enemies rather than love them.

These three sins of pride are pretty much EMBRACED by modern Christianity, despite the fact that in the passage above, Jesus rebukes them for it and turns away from them since his mission is to SAVE, not destroy.  

So while spreading the word is a key facet of Christianity, and a totally valid one, FORCING your faith on people is not, and is looked down upon by your own god.  So... 

I think that anotheramerican has made an important contribution to this discussion.  Also, I think you should go to the Jews for Jesus website to get more information on what AC means when she says "perfected".  

December 1, 2003

First, Jews who receive Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior and who are "completed" and "fulfilled" thereby do not need to leave behind their Jewish identity or break with Jewish ways. As Judaizing was not a theological requirement for the first gentile Christians, so gentilizing is not a cultural requirement for today's Jewish believers. Though they belong in the Christian church, which has been mainly gentile—non-Jewish, that is—for most of its life, within the church they are free to be as Jewish as they like.

------------------------------------

AC was not trying to be hateful or hurtful.   Please, lets stop all the hateful and hurtful attacks on each other and really try to understand where evangelical Christians are coming from.

The reason that a majority of Jews do not believe in Jesus as the Messiah is because he isn't, to their reckoning.  He did not fulfill prophecy which is vital for the Moshiach to fulfill to be recognized.  A few examples of the prophecies he did NOT fulfill:  

* He did not build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28)

* He did not gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6)

* He did not usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)

* He was not a descendent of David, since Joseph, who was nominally his 'father', was not his REAL father.  (see Genesis 49:10 and Isaiah 11:1)

* He did not lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance. The Torah states that all mitzvot remain binding forever, and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. (Deut. 13:1-4)

Want more reasons why Jews don't observe Jesus as the Messiah?  I got a million! 

The reason that a majority of Jews do not believe in Jesus as the Messiah is because he isn't, to their reckoning.

Want more reasons why Jews don't observe Jesus as the Messiah?  I got a million! You went from the "majority of Jews" and by the end of your post you gave a blanket "Jews" meaning "all".  I really don't mind the lack of consistency, but I agree with your first statement about the MAJORITY.

However, there are SOME Jews who believe.  Personally, it does not really matter to me since I'm not a Jew or an Evangelical Christian.  I'm only trying to understand why SOME Jews believe that converting to Christianity "completes" or "perfects" their faith.  And, of course, I really do not like all the anger and fighting that the simple act of sharing the God News with non-believers engenders among some at MMFA.

In my opinion, people have a right to any religious belief that they like.  And this includes the right of some people to believe that their faith is the only way to "Salvation".

There have been a lot of bigoted statements made against people of faith, and the majority of the angry talk comes from people opposed to AC.  Honestly, some of you guys should be ashamed.

Yes, Billy Bob, there are Jews that believe that Jesus Christ was the messiah. 

You can call them 'perfected Jews' if you like

Jews (like me) would just call them 'Christians'

Ha!  Amen, Mischa!  Once you "accept Jesus Christ as your personal lord and savior" you are no longer anything other than a Christian.  Granted, you might be a Caucasian Christian, or an African Christian, or a Japanese Christian or a Jewish Christian, but you are no longer a Jew religiously, because you have ignored the lack of true prophecy fulfillment per the Jewish faith and instead taken up the Christian interpretation of things. 

I don't care it people call the "perfected" or not.  I honestly do not have a dog in this fight.  I'm not a Jew or an Evangelical Christian.  I'm only responding to the misplaced and wrongheaded attacks on babe-0-licioius Ann Coulter!

Babe-o-licious!!  That is hilarious!!!!

Ann doesn't really do it for me.  I prefer women who have souls.

You're right,  I did forget to add that one word to the end of my argument. However, the lack of that one word at the end does not invalidate the argument.

As to people picking on poor AC, perhaps if she had some level of tact, compassion or humanity to her, people wouldn't call her names and use her words against her.  She is a terrible representation of Christianity to the masses, and is part of the problem when it comes to people viewing ALL Christians through a certain, flawed, lens.   

I am, of course, well aware that not every Christian out there is out for the blood of the heretics.  But people like AC give that impression to the masses.  Is it any wonder that in many circles, "Christian" is synonymous with "hypocrite" or "bigot" when these are the mouth-pieces chosen to represent the faith?   

The Billybones baloney about Jews being cultural Jews and religous Christians is contradicted many times in Christian Theology -the Christian Bible states that in Christ" their is no Jews or Gentiles "and St. Paul in his epistles many times attacks the backsliding Christian converts who are still practicing Jewish customs.  Historically such a "Judaizing Heressy" was punished by death in Christian lands form Spain to Rusia.  A Jewish Christian makes as much sense as Kosher Pork, 

I don't need to tell you what I think her meaning was, I'll use her actual words: 

DEUTSCH: That isn't what I said, but you said I should not -- we should just throw Judaism away and we should all be Christians, then, or --

COULTER: Yeah.

DEUTSCH: Really?

COULTER: Well, it's a lot easier. It's kind of a fast track.

DEUTSCH: Really?

COULTER: Yeah. You have to obey.

DEUTSCH: You can't possibly believe that.

COULTER: Yes.

It's wonderful to live in an age where transcripts are so easily available and people have to face the things they say when they think that only their target audience is listening.   

"From your post I guess that Christianity is just one more lifestyle choice that a person could make - i.e., Should I be a Christian?  Or should I be Hindu or Buddhist?   And for lunch, maybe I should have a ham sandwich or a tuna sandwich?   Both choices are probably on a the same level, I assume."--Bilybobjones

Whillenbrand never said that.  I find it interesting that you feel free to put words into Whillenbrands mouth, yet you're too much a coward to answer his/her simple question.  I think that gives us our answer.  So allow me to make inference and put word in your mouth that I belive to be true: You must believe the same way Coulter does--Jews need to be perfected.

I don't think that AC said anything about "imposing" her beliefs on anyone.

"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity." -Ann Coulter

The Google is your friend. Or your enemy, as the case may be. 

Actually, your post represents what MMFA considers good "research" - i.e.,  take a second to "google" and then selectively quote someone out of context.

You should ask the "researchers" at MMFA to give you a paid position. 

WOW.  Please, Billybobjones, tell me in what context that remark would be anything less than obscene.

Wow.  Is the "out of context" excuse all you have for that one?  Please provide what we are missing there.

open_mind

We all remember that AC's article at National Review was after 9/11 and was a riff on converting all Muslims to Christianity.  

This has nothing to do with this topic, and I think you know that.

Ann apparently thinks all Jews should be Christians and she has said similar things about Muslims as well.  How is that off-topic?

 So Ann doesn't want all Jews to be Christians?

Deutsch asks his guest to clarify. "So, we should all be Christian?" he inquires. "It would be better if we would all be Christian?

COULTER: Yes.

DEUTSCH: We should all be Christian?

COULTER: Yes.

You're a real goober! Of course religiosity and preferred faith are choices. A person makes an emotional and spiritual choice as to which faith works for them.

I'm not mad at you just increasingly realizing that many social conservatives are not as bright as they think they are. I find your post offensive, but it proves how stoopid you are.

I don't have any Tupperware or Gladloc containers big enough. :)

HAH! We're kind of like Lutherans, but we know how to read ( old joke ) Maybe Coulter will use it.

Billybob:

".......I honestly cannot understand any believing Christian NOT wanting everyone to be saved.   So let me ask you this question:  If you believe in Jesus Christ as your Savior, wouldn't you want everyone - including all your Jewish friends - to be saved?"

.................................................................

On that note....There is a great article by Robert J. Elisberb on the Huffington Post, about Ann Coulter's remarks . Here is a segment of his article that may answer Billybob's above question:

"........Now, no doubt there is a directionless cadre of people reading this thinking, "But, no, that isn't hateful at all. And she's right. We should all be Christians. Jews should be perfected."

And that's the scary thought, too.

Because ultimately this really isn't about Ann Coulter being needy for attention and showing herself to be divisive or hatemongering. Again. That's on the record. No, this is about people who actually agree with everything she said - and think there's nothing hateful, anti-Semitic or wrong with it.

(NOTE: Just because you don't know you're being hateful and anti-Semitic, doesn't mean you're not. It's like an ostrich sticking its head in its butt and thinking it's safe, as a caravan of steamrollers rumbles towards it.)............"

The question was "wouldn't you want your Jewish friends to be saved" or "perfected as Ado Annie puts it.  There there lies the paradox - if you tried to proselytize your Jewish "friends", chances are they wouldn't be your "friends" for long.  Jews don't think that Christians need to convert to Judasim to be saved, but to observe the Noahite laws.  My father in law is a Southern Baptist Deacon and he instinctively knew that this proseletyzing would be wrong. His daughter converted and became President of our Temple and he was fine with this.  Interestingly today more Christians convert to Judaism than the other way around, so I think Annie should look after her own flock first. 

Of course she is going to say something controversial, she has a new book out.  I just never thought she'd slam Jews.  Muslims sure, Jews no.  The only people who read her book are those who want to be spoon fed neocon ideals and have their feathers stroked so they don't stray from the neocon agenda.

That's all hannity, oreilly, and limbaugh are out there to do - keep the neocons from abandoning the republicans and polarize them from the dems so we can maintain our two party oligarchy 

Watch out where you point that sure. It might be loaded.

Is this guy Jeffrey nuts? First, Theology is the study of religion and not a word to describe someones religion so he looses 99 points of credibility with me. He looses the other point by saying he is "friend" of Coulter and from there we begin going in to the negative column with all the other idiotic statements he made. I honestly believe that Coulter is one big act that gives her all the attention she craves. Sadly for all of humanity this act has become hatefull. One last observation - why haven't all of her talk show friends talked about her - defended her - supported her. It would sure be a lot more entertaining then dragging Carter through the mud.

You are getting hung up over the wrong reason my friend. The word "theology" has many meanings: 

from Wikopedia:

Theology is reasoned discourse about God or the gods, or more generally about religion or spirituality.

Theologians use various forms of analysis and argument (philosophical, ethnographic, historical) to help understand, explain, test, critique, defend or promote any of a myriad of religious topics. It might be undertaken to help the theologian

• understand more truly his or her own religious tradition,[1]
• understand more truly another religious tradition,[2]
• make comparisons between religious traditions,[3]
• defend a religious tradition,
• facilitate reform of a particular tradition,[4]
• assist in the propagation of a religious tradition,[5] or
• draw on the resources of a tradition to address some present situation or need,[6] or for a variety of other reasons.

 So it seems to me, using any number of the definitions above, Jeffery used the term correctly.

JEFFREY: Hmm-mm. Do you think that you absolutely know for certain that Ann Coulter denigrated Judaism from what you saw in that clip there or what you read in a few transcripts? Are you certain about that?

CARVILLE: I don't know --

Carville's a moron. Guys like him are the reason why Dems always lose the big prize. He could have nailed Jeffrey and Coulter, but instead.....what a letdown. And this happens all the TIME!

Carville said:

"I don't know a single Jew that doesn't think that she said that their religion was imperfect. I don't know a single one, but if there is one, I'll be glad to hear from them."

a little selective editing by carlile?

carville's the "moron" that got bill clinton elected twice, the first democrat since FDR to do that. not too shabby for a "moron".

granted, truman might well have done it too, had he chosen to run again in 1952, but he didn't.

what should he have said?:

 "well gee wolf, we all know ms. coulter's a f**king idiot, what'd you expect her to say?"

 i suspect that would have gotten bleeped.

Car,

The reason Carville backed away from this obvious softball was because he understands what Coulter was saying was not anti-semitism. He is simply trying to incite people ignorant of Christian thought against Coulter by piling on this feigned outrage.

After all, Ann is saying nothing less than the Apostles.  

I agree that calling it "anti-semitism" seems out of place, hyperbolic and inappropriate, but the exchange does seem very patronizing.  I know it is a common view in Christianity, but it has been abandonded by many Christians because we realize it is a very offensive and patronizing view of other religions.  Perhaps this dustup can convince others of that as well.

Unfortunately, there is plenty of anti-Semitism among the accounts of the Apostles. See, for example, John 5:14-18.

Well... I have a crazy idea. Don't have her on your show. If you need a side-show idiot like Coulter... your show sux. Plain and simple.

Obviously, it's in the Rightwing's plans to "PERFECT" the Jews.

We already know Coulter's plan to "convert" the Muslims, after killing their leaders (and any others not willing to be converted).

It seems all Ann needs is an actual operational scheme to go about this "perfecting" business. May I suggest, "Operation Final Solution"?

I would agree that Carville looked like he whimped out but I recall watching him give it to Robert Novak, who walked out of the interview in a huff.  Carvile just sat there snickering and saying,  what, did I say something!

In 2005, Novak was appearing on "Strategy Session" opposite James Carville. On the air, Carville accused Novak of trying to curry favor with The Wall Street Journal editorial page. Novak protested. "Just let me finish what I'm going to say, James," Novak quotes the script. "Please, I know you hate to hear me, but you have --"

<!--BEGIN_TEXT-->The book recounts, "Before I could finish that, a shouting Carville overrode what I had to say. 'He's got to show these right-wingers that he's got backbone,' Carville yelled. 'Show them you're tough.' Two and a half years of coping with Carville's ad hominem attacks welled up in me. 'Well, I think that's bulls****,' I said."

<!--BEGIN_TEXT-->Novak rose from the desk. "I removed my microphone and stalked off the set.

Weren't you listening?  Terry Jeffreys said that Ann Coulter's a good person.  'Nuff said; shut down the thread.

This is another reason why I love James Carville.

I was on a jury recently. The nature of the case required that the judge explain what "aiding and abetting" is. Basically, it means that someone knew that someone intended to commit a crime and they helped. Punishment for aiding and abetting a crime is equal to that which can be levied against the one actually committing the crime.

 CNBC knew what Coulter would do, and they helped.

 Guilty. They thought no one would notice.

Whatever else this shows, it shows that Ann Coulter is not very smart. I think she wings it, thinking "what outrageous comment can I make here?" and, convinced she's immune (because she's been assured) she says something that--suddenly--makes the whole tenor of things change.

She went and kicked Blofeld's cat.

It's an Imus moment: it probably won't have Imus consequences, because Imus wasn't made with the Scaife/Regnery family, but it was about as stupid a move since George Allen, if not George Romney.

I watched that this afternoon and I thought Carville was okay under the circumstances. Listen to Jeffery - he was nothing but a weaseler at the end. I only wished Carville had thought enough to say - See Republicans always have to defend her!!That bit about do you know what she meant because I didn't, or have you talked to theologians etc. was nothing but garbage to escape answering the question.  I put as much fault on Blitzer for standing there mute and letting that last segment go unchecked before ending the interview.. And my husband and I also thought he was going to all her a  *itch at one point but stopped himself.  He would have been bleeped but it would have been more fun! 

My god!….. I love Jeffrey,

‘first of all, we'd have to discern what actually Ann Coulter said and what Ann -- actually Ann Coulter meant‘.

What is this, don't take what I say seriously cause I don't have command of the English language?  Let’s filter my speech through 'Republican PC', take a poll on how it’s received and then I'll tell you what she actually meant to say. GET REAL! Jeffrey's knew Annie said exactly what she meant. Donnie asked her if she really meant what she said and starving Annie said yes. Republicans use Annie, Rush and Neal types to do their attack work and they deserve whatever they get when their dogs get off their leash and bite someone in the butt..... them.  

What I really want to see is Joe Lieberman's comment on this, since he's been sooo cozy with Republicans of late.

Pearlene,

Ann expressed only a fundamental Christian teaching. 

We are invited to repent for the forgiveness of our sins and to know that Jesus promised to his Church to be with it all days, even to the end of the world, with a commission to go and teach all peoples of all times the great truth and knowledge of the love of God.

That is all.  That does not mean that Ann is anti-semite or anti-anything.  She is not saying that Jews are not free to believe the old testament and their tradition. She was just expressing how Christians feel they have replaced the Jewish laws with Jesus as the way to get to Heaven. There is no need for moral relativism here. 

Religious beliefs are a zero sum game. People believe their beliefs to be correct hence others beliefs are not.  We all live with that.

"Religious beliefs are a zero sum game. People believe their beliefs to be correct hence others beliefs are not.  We all live with that."--anotheramerican

No. You are merely projecting your own view.  Some of us believe we are all trying to understand the same God, but from different perspectives.  I think there is divine wisdom that can be learned from other religions and philosophies.  I consider myself a Christian, but I don't think the Bible is the end-all-be-all source of divine wisdom although I respect that you may believe that way.

Same here. I respect your viewpoint and your religious beliefs.

I don't think one should be offended that others feel that their religion is the correct one and yours, (if different,) is not.

Now if they try to impose their will against yours to accept their religion, then we've got problems. That of course violates the whole freedom of religion part of the first amendment.  

"I don't think one should be offended that others feel that their religion is the correct one and yours, (if different,) is not."--anotheramerican

I think it is natural to be offended when someone tells you that you are wrong - especially when no one can know for sure what the "right" religion is IMO.  If there is a way to tell the "right" religion without dying (even that may not be conclusive), I would like to know how one can reasonably proclaim to know it and have the gall to tell someone else they are wrong.

Open,

Why would that be the case?  We have just demonstrated that we believe differently. Am I offended that you believe differently than me and are telling me (implicitly,) I am wrong? No.

Are you offended with me expressing my views?  I would guess not.

Actually, I beg to differ.  I am not even implicitly telling you that you are wrong in your choice of religion (as Coulter has done).  You (and Coulter) very well may be members of the only correct religion (just like everyone else may be or perhaps even no one else is right)

It is like people walking up to a high stakes (playing for souls) shell game after the magician has mixed up the shells with a ball under one of the shells.  One person believes that the ball is under number 6 and tells everyone else they are wrong (and will burn in hades).  I am merely pointing out that we really don't know which shell the ball is under, but the first guy may indeed be right.  The ball may actually be under shell number 6. It may be under one of the others.  Or the magician may be holding it in his hand.  

I am not even implying you are wrong and I accept you could be right.  I am just saying that telling everyone else that you know the answer is insulting and patronizing.  You can be insulting and patronizing and still be right.  I am not denying you that.

"Same here. I respect your viewpoint and your religious beliefs."--anotheramerican

Of course, we are both Christians, so that rings a little hollow, but I take it that you claim to respect everyone's beliefs.

If you believe that everyone else has an immature and/or lesser knowledge of God than you do, how is that respect?  I don't understand that.  Why would you expect respect in return?  Do you expect more from the other world's religions than you expect from Christianity?

DEUTSCH: [W]e should just throw Judaism away and we should all be Christians, then, or --

COULTER: Yeah.

AA, I find it funny how we have to have explanations for statements some conservatives make.

Annie made the statement and when Donnie ask her more than once if that’s what she meant she said yes. There is no reasonable explanation for what she said. She and many others have a lack of respect for other religions and beliefs. I am a christian but I do not believe that I’m in any way the same type of ’christian’ Annie claims to be. She actually said that her idea of heaven would be like the Republican convention. She also claimed tolerance, while she is one of the LEAST tolerant person around.

While it's not my place to judge, I will say that I have a healthy amount of scepticism regarding your explanation for Annie statement.

This is really over the top. This woman keeps getting press, and the right defends her every move, yet the left doesn't go after her hard enough. It's time these programmes stopped inviting her and let her crappy books flounder, as they should--heaven knows why anyone would read her garbage. On the other hand, if they continue to bring her on, she might just end her own career. Still, we can't wait for that to happen, knowing how many Neanderthals pay for her rubbish and adore her so much.

i don't see the usual "I don't like Coulter, but..." rightys here- the ones who say to just ignore her because she's a clown.

I just find her pathetic, except for the purpose she serves; to slide the scale to the extreme right so that Bill O'Reilly can convince the idiots that he's a centrist.

Annie-Christ is one of the reasons why that stoopid Godwin's Law has been abused to say that Nazi comparisons lose the argument, not just that comparisons become more likely as a discussion gets longer.I'm sick of it being used to stifle those who would point out Nazi-like behavior when it applies.

When Neocons watch those documentaries on Hitler's or Stalin's rise to power and ask "how could that ever happen? Why didn't decent people do something?", they should remind themselves that information traveled a lot slower then, there was no internet, and Hitler may have had "comedians" and "entertainers" traveling around Europe convincing everybody that he was just being outrageous for the ratings.

"You just have to expect that, when you have Hitler on your show!"

F-U and your "No fair saying 'Nazi'" whining. Quit acting like Nazis, and it will stop.

I just find her pathetic, except for the purpose she serves; to slide the scale to the extreme right so that Bill O'Reilly can convince the idiots that he's a centrist.

EXACTLY.  And of course not just Billo but every other reich wing pundit and so-called journalist that has her on their show.   She make Blitzer look moderate!

HBL,

Which part Ann's comments that you feel is specifically Nazi-like? 

Honestly, don't you think your fantasy about Hitler employing comedians in order to make a point, stretching it a bit? 

"Which part Ann's comments that you feel is specifically Nazi-like?" (AA)

I'd say the part about describing one group of people as inferior to another based on their religion.

I don't know if I'd call any of my post a "fantasy", I was only mentioning the possibility that Hitler may have employed some soft-sell techniques along with his more direct advertising. 

HBL,

I think you are inferring quite a bit. Nowhere did I see Ann say any group of people was inferior.

Perhaps you can show me the quote?

(I only said it was fantasy because you made it up.) 

DEUTSCH: [S]o we should be Christian? It would be better if we were all Christian?

COULTER: Yes.

Why would it be better if everybody was equal, or others were better than Christians? This is not that complicated, Barney.

Your reasoning was much more elegant than mine.  Nice work.

If one group is described as "perfected" - which you described comparatively as: "in a theological sense means to have come to a mature and fuller knowledge of God through knowing and following the teachings of Jesus." - and another group is not "perfected", isn't Ann necessarily suggesting that the non "perfected" group has an immature and lesser knowledge of God? Do you think it is reasonable to say that immature and lesser knowledge of God  is inferior in Ann's mind to mature and fuller knowledge of God?  Is that even a stretch?

Well said, HuntingtonBeachLefty!  Let's call 'em as we see 'em!  Coulter's opinions are consistantly despicable.  That they find support among people claiming to be good Republicans or sincere Christians suggests that there are some very twisted minds who've been accepted by this political party and the Churches which they attend.

Well, he's right. You put that psycho in front of a camera and ask her to make noise and she will. It's only to be expected.

Typical remarks from this rightwing tramp named Ann Coulter. Fox News and Sean loves this hag for reasons I cannot understand.

But you can stop Fox News Channel from bring this broad back on. I encourage everyone of all faiths to denounce this rightwing tramp by calling News Corporation President and Chief Operating Officer Peter Chern at 212-852-7000 (sorry, I don't have a toll-free number). Don't use snail mail. Call directly and tell him you will contact all of Fox News advertisers-local and national-and boycott their businesses if Fox News and Sean allow this broad on its air. Tell the administration assistant you want to leave a voice mail message to Peter. If they ask who you represent, tell them it's personal business.

Although the jews were Gods chosen people, judaism is not Gods chosen religion. Christianity is. According to their own book,(and a part of mine) the old testament , the jews were ruled by one evil king after another.Whats so perfect about that?Occasionally a good king reigned and the people prospered. The ONLY perfect man that ever walked the face of the earth was crucified by a bunch of self appointed, self righteous hypocrital jews. But of course, it was part of the perfect plan which the jews are still trying to hide from. Ann coulter could of had a heyday with the truth but the truth can't be told in todays society.

I would like to introduce everyone to Ann Coulter!  Go ahead, Ann, take a bow.  Or duck at the pie being thrown at you.

We do not need to castigate Jews for the Crucification. We need not blame anyone. It had to happen for salvation to be brought to mankind. We need to keep in mind that Jesus and the Apostles were Jews and our religious tradition in the Old Testament was written by Jews. 

origpssdoffnativ, you may have just made Jesus say M-Fer.

I found it ironic that on the Today show this morning that had Donny Deutcsh (Sp) on about Ann Coulter and why they interviewed her? Yet Today gives her a forum every time she has a book. 

Wasn't Ann on earlier this week?  Maybe she'll be on Monday?

I think Terry Jeffrey is our own Tommy-Boy.  Do we now have to poll every Jewish and Christian theologian to determine if what Ann Coulter said was offensive?  I found it offensive, Carville found it offensive, and many that post here found it offensive.  Certainly not a quorum, but good enough for me.

Robot,

If you don't mind my asking? What specifically did you find offensive? Why? 

I'm not going to rehash all of Ann's comments to say "specifically" what offended me.  Just about every one of her comments supports the premise that Ann thinks everyone should be Christian.  Not only is she saying Jews need to be perfected, although that was the example given within the discussion, but her comments also suggest that EVERYONE ELSE who is not a Christian should be perfected.  I can't stand Ann's hubris and holier-than-thou attitude.