This smells a lot like Karl Rove. Anybody know what he's doing these days?

Probably working for FOX. They are getting in high gear to smear the Democratic candidates.  It is desperation time after the rift raft of republicans failed again at the FAUX debate sunday.

I heard he was relaxing in Texas, doing some fishing and buggering little boys.  ;>)

Karl Rove lives on whether he is working for them or not. His methods will be the MO of the GOP until those methods start getting defeated on a regular basis. What works is what gets used so Karl lives with all of us for now. (shudder)

Indeed, some of the methods being employed by the Clinton campaign bear a bit of the Rove stamp. Her supporters are so used to getting beat up by this stuff that now when she does it, they call it 'Seasoning.' As though it's a political awakening now to become more like Rove. That's some of the real damage done here after all. People will emulate the winners, so when the sleazeballs win, more people will act sleazy.

Obama may not have a ton of political experience but I would think one of the first lessons taught in Political Office Seeking 101 is to wear one's patriotism on one's sleeve, even when showering.  Otherwise you are opening yourself to jabs like this from cable talking heads who need to fill airtime.

Don't be surprised if you give your enemy a sword, and they use it.

Agreed. I don't think this particular Fox & Friends coverage was more than a rather obvious observation about the political risk that Obama took in making a point of not wearing his flag.

Personally, I like Obama because he is not such a slave to conformity on trivial matters.  To each his own.

Open,

I agree with you completely.  There is no reason to question Obama's patriotism anymore than anyone else.  But they should know better than to give the media this type of ammunition - perception is everything.

I agree with you that Obama's choice not to cover his heart may carry a price with the media's coverage, but it seems to me Obama is aware of that and chooses not to play these (IMO) stupid little games. 

Maybe I am giving him too much credit, because I really like him as a person and a candidate.

Our point is not that he's a nonconformist, but that he chose to comment on it in such a risky way. We're not saying he's wrong...just saying that the questions raised should not be unexpected.

An honest reply isn't lost on Americans who haven't been dumbed down by Faux and enemies of American democracy.

I see your point, although I don't really think that not doing something is "commenting", but I get the gist.

I suppose such things should be expected especially from morons like Doocy.  It is just a pretty sad commentary on the state of some of the media that we have/should come to expect such utter silliness from them.

My world certainly doesn't turn on the words of Deuce-y.

Maybe he's making a calculated move to give his clownish opponants a sword and watch them stab themselves in the foot.  He would certainly be correct if he is assuming that Americans, especially Democratic primary voters, are way past tired of hearing idiots like Doosey question others' patriotism. 

You have to admit that these people are showing the world how foolish they are by harping on something so stupid.  Ditto on the flag pin thing.

Tommy, those people are not his enemy. Right now he is trying to win the support of Democratic primary voters, not the simpletons who watch Fox and Friends. What we've seen is that the more noise the right-wingers make about Hillary right now, the more support she gains in the nomination.

The people who want to see the Republicans win are his "enemy", that is the point.  I understand the primary season and all........but if he chooses to march to a different drummer that is perfectly his choice, and fine.

Just don't be surprised, or complain,  if any little nuanced microscopic nitpicking detail is used against him, because they always are.

Tommy, 

"Don't be surprised if you give your enemy a sword, and they use it."

I agree with that statement on its own, but in this case, really, who exchanged swords first?

There was the baloney about the madrassa,

then "BO Magazine" on the 1/2 Hour News Hour,

then they went after him for smoking,

then his "blackness",

then his desire to take out terrorist targets,  

then the lapel pin,

and now this latest round of lunacy from the Douche.

All the while, the idiots at Fixed Noise are sitting there wondering, "Why did he ditch our debate?  Why won't he let us interview him?" as if they have no freaking clue as to why!  

Pete,

It isn't about who drew the sword first or not, the point is candidates have to live with it.  They may ditch Fox if they want, it's up to them, but they aren't going away - like them of not they still trounce all other cable news channels. 

Of course they are Republican operatives.....but there again, Obama and the rest had better figure out how to deal with effectively and not let Fox define them - because they will. 

I think Fixed Noise's definition will only be consumed by those who will never vote for him or any Democrat.  The dedicated Fixed Noise viewer is not going to be swayed from their Hannitized view in any way by an Obama interview chock full of loaded, leading, falsely premised and ridiculous questions.

I think Obama giving them the cold shoulder is easily understood, even by the most thickheaded Fixed Noise faithful.  I also think the shunning will not sway those who cast a large net when it comes to informing themselves.   

DOOCY: Yeah. During the singing of the national anthem, you've got to have your hand over your heart.

And exactly how does misinterpreting the US Code and misleading your audience fit the requirement of serving the public interest?

Fox News ought to have its license yanked by the FCC.

This is not Obama's problem.

As we've seen over and over, if its not the lie about Obama's "patriotism problem" Fox is trying to foist on its viewing public its some other lie.

Don't blame the victim.

It is interesting that you came to the conclusion that Obama is the victim. This isn't a deep and ocmplicated issue. He is a liberal trying to pander to his audience. Fox is absolutely right for pointing out his lack of respect.

Fox's commentators/entertainers are lying about what the US Code requires.

They're also lying about Obama having a "patriotism problem."

This kind of lying, and there are many other documented examples, does not serve the public interest as Fox was required to do when its license was granted.

Tommy is full of it as usual.  Obama could wear a suit woven from the American flag and have his right hand welded to his heart and the fright-wing hacks would probably call him a "phony patriot."  He can never please these ridiculous people, nor should he even try, since they will always find some piece of nonsense or other to attack him with.  Normal-thinking people will judge Obama on his actions and words, not facile representations of so-called patriotism, and it is this constituency he needs to please.  Oh, Tommy, by the way, I'm sure you went on newsbusters in response to that post, and said, "why is this here? how is this an example of liberal media bias?"  LOL.

I am sooo sick of the stupid things the media think they should be reporting on in this campaign.  Yesterday, I heard all these comments by the media becasue Romney's hair was ruffled for part of the debate.  Really are there any voting citizens out there that actually give a hoot about this stuff. 

more manufactured outrage. But since we've gotta play that game, here are a few other interesting codes in Title 36, chapter 10:

d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.

(i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.

(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.

And then there's Title 4, section 3:

Any person who, within the District of Columbia, in any manner, for exhibition or display, shall place or cause to be placed any word, figure, mark, picture, design, drawing, or any advertisement of any nature upon any flag, standard, colors, or ensign of the United States of America; or shall expose or cause to be exposed to public view any such flag, standard, colors, or ensign upon which shall have been printed, painted, or otherwise placed, or to which shall be attached, appended, affixed, or annexed any word, figure, mark, picture, design, or drawing, or any advertisement of any nature; or who, within the District of Columbia, shall manufacture, sell, expose for sale, or to public view, or give away or have in possession for sale, or to be given away or for use for any purpose, any article or substance being an article of merchandise, or a receptacle for merchandise or article or thing for carrying or transporting merchandise, upon which shall have been printed, painted, attached, or otherwise placed a representation of any such flag, standard, colors, or ensign, to advertise, call attention to, decorate, mark, or distinguish the article or substance on which so placed shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be punished by a fine not exceeding $100 or by imprisonment for not more than thirty days, or both, in the discretion of the court. The words 'flag, standard, colors, or ensign', as used herein, shall include any flag, standard, colors, ensign, or any picture or representation of either, or of any part or parts of either, made of any substance or represented on any substance, of any size evidently purporting to be either of said flag, standard, colors, or ensign of the United States of America or a picture or a representation of either, upon which shall be shown the colors, the stars and the stripes, in any number of either thereof, or of any part or parts of either, by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag, colors, standard, or ensign of the United States of America.

You wingers get that? You can't wear the flag or representation of the flag as clothing. It's against the code, you hipocrites! 

Snoopy, I do not see where it says you can not wear a shirt with a pic of the american flag on it?

Here it is.

The words 'flag, standard, colors, or ensign', as used herein, shall include any flag, standard, colors, ensign, or any picture or representation of either, or of any part or parts of either, made of any substance or represented on any substance, of any size evidently purporting to be either of said flag, standard, colors, or ensign of the United States of America or a picture or a representation of either, upon which shall be shown the colors, the stars and the stripes, in any number of either thereof, or of any part or parts of either, by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag, colors, standard, or ensign of the United States of America.

much to confusing. I need a damn lawyer.

Actually, Sec. 3 Title 4 just applies to the District of Columbia.  Similar, broader prohibitions can be found elsewhere in that title, without the definition.

I think the code is pretty straightforward: "The flag should never be used as wearing apparel"

"Flag" is further described above as "The words 'flag, standard, colors, or ensign', as used herein, shall include any flag, standard, colors, ensign, or any picture or representation of either, or of any part or parts of either, made of any substance or represented on any substance, of any size evidently purporting to be either of said flag, standard, colors, or ensign of the United States of America or a picture or a representation of either, upon which shall be shown the colors, the stars and the stripes, in any number of either thereof, or of any part or parts of either, by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag, colors, standard, or ensign of the United States of America."

So the flag or anything reasonably perceived by an average person representing the flag should not be worn as apparel.

This is exactly why, rightly or wrongly, liberals get labeled elitist.

A flag, a symbol of longstanding patriotism that is commonplace among Americans and proudly displayed on our attire throughout our history - being nuanced out of it's appropriateness.

Meanwhile, the appropriateness itself gets nuanced into a political battering ram by conservatives.

Pete, You keep talking theory - I don't disagree with any of what you're saying......but politics isn't always about any of that - it's about image, and perception, and all that stuff.  Policy and issues are only part of the equation that gets people elected.

So Tommy, the fact that the same code being used to trash Obama points out that it is also illegal for you to wear the flag like clothing elicits the "elitist response"? You could have suggested that it would be appropriate to change the laws to reflect a desire to show your patriotism, but instead just admitted that some laws were meant to be broken. Nice conundrum you just painted yourself with.

Illegal! What about invading a country pre-emptively?   Funny how fox and clones are so worried about flag pins and pledge etiquette when we have had 7 years of extremely damaging leadership.  These guys are worried about politically correct fashion protocols when impeachable offences slip right by them.

you're right, what was I thinking? If they don't care about how we start wars, why would they care about something as pathetic as flag ettiquette? (unless it's a democrat, that is!)

I think part of what MMFA is trying to point out in this post and many others is that today's media is virtually entirely focused on appearance, ignoring any shred of real policy discussions.  It is a very sad trend and one that hurts all of us.

Actually tommy, the same argument was made against hippies in the 1960's.  This isn't always a liberal/conservative thing as you are suggesting and even less some sort of "elitist" thing.

"The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever."

Wow. FOX "News" is in big trouble...along with half the real estate agents in the country...

Does that mean I have to stop wearing these?

[link to www.webundies.com]

Nerzog, that reminds me, did I ever send you a copy of this picture I took of you ? That was quite a weekend!

Who was supposed to file the paperwork for the copy-rite on our American flag themed adult undergarments, you or me?

I hope one of us remembered to file.

If we have the copy-rite, those garments in the links might be infringing on our intellectual property rights.

I thought you filed the paperwork, King!

Anyway, if it redeems me in your eyes as a business partner and patriot, I'm pretty sure I told Nerzog to take those things off.Now!

Great. We'll enforce our rights with or without the legal papers.

This is America 2007. Laws are for the weak.

I'll take care of the East Coast and you take care of the West Coast.

We may need to hire someone to take care of the middle.

Our product sells itself. The highest quality, most absorbent adult undergarment and the only one with an American flag theme. The bedwetters will be able to be warm and dry, as they wrap themselves up in the flag.

Yeah, that's me...in my dreams!

To all that, I have only one reply:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a379/jeannie411/bush_flag_desecration.jpg 

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a379/jeannie411/bush_flag_desecration.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a379/jeannie411/bush_flag_desecration.jpg

I'll get it right, yet. 

Snoopy,

E-mail your post to Goofy Doocy and the rest of the Fox News cast of characters to remind them of the flag etiquette.

The attacks on Obama and the other Dems is orchestrated by the Fox News GOP Programming Bot Bill Shine and other producers.

Good news! The pressure on the Fox News Channel GOP talking heads is working. Keep up the good work MMFA.

A technicality, but that's all been recodified.  It now appears at Title 4 of the US Code.  Same language, though.

http://www.access.gpo.gov/uscode/title4/chapter1_.html

 And talk about desecrating the flag, where's the outrage at this clear violation of subd. (g), Sec. 8, Title 4?

 [link to www.fridayfishwrap.com] The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature."

I see that ZHarris is all over that GWBflag desecration thing.

I have an American flag pin AND an American flag bumper sticker!  I am way more qualified to be president than Obama!

Oh yea...? Well I have a pin with an American flag superimposed on a crucifix. Top that...  ;>) 

I have one attached to an elephant with a swastika armband that is holding a cross and wearing a hood while he blows christmas songs through his trumpet. There!

Oh, man, that's cool... where can I get one?!?  ;>)

I can say the Pledge of Allegiance (emphasizing the UNDER GOD) covering my heart with one hand while crossing myself with the other hand, and in the same breath pray for the violent deaths of all Islamofascists!

I have a mini bible in which every page is an American flag that I had made into a pin, one that I pin directly on my body while wearing an American flag cape and American flag underwear during my daily ritual of standing in front of my house screaming "Hail Caesar!" listening to a mix of "Real American" by Hulk Hogan and our National Anthem.  

Is that enough to keep idiots like this from questioning my patriotism?  I could add some Lee Greenwood to the mix if that helps.

Psp, you will also need a recording of John Ashcroft sing that song about the eagle soaring.

Here's the link for Ashcroft singing, "Let The Eagle Soar"

[link to www.ifilm.com]

I think he also wrote the song.

It's scarier than the commercial for a horror movie that ifilm makes you watch prior to seeing Ashcroft.

Haha - loved your comment about the 'Real American' song.  It's running through my head right now... and all the Hulkamaniacs are going wild!

Hey, thanks!  I'm rocking out to that song right now!  I loved, loved, loved Hulk back in the day.  

It's funny though, I don't remember my father (who fought in WWII) ever telling me that I had to place my hand over my heart during the Anthem or wear a flag pin to be a real American.  He did tell me to train, say my prayers, eat my vitamins, be true to myself and be true to myself though, and that fits in with Hulk's message, so I guess that makes up for it.  Fought in a world war?  Whatever.  Part the Hulkamania nation?  Right on!

As an aside, it seems like Steve needs to take some of Hulk's advice.  He's looking a little weak to me.     

I could bottom it, with a pair of american flag socks. They wore out in the mid 70's and are probably not replacable.

Would you settle for VP,Towelie? You will when you see my Old Glory fanny pack, clogs and Speedo. 

Have you ever seen Dick Cheney's American flag pin? You have to look at it close up, but it says "I'm with stupid."   Cool, huh...?

Hbl, did you tell them about the flag tatoo on the back of your head? Or the flag tramp stamp on your lower back with the eagle? Sexy.

If I have to tell anyone how patriotic I am, I'll tell them with the little American flags tattooed on my knuckles!

HBL, I just picked up a flag pin with gold eagles surrounding the flag...and when you turn the pin in the light you can see Elvis' face.

Was there just no room left for Jesus and Reagan, or do you hate America?

This guy is catching flack from all sides. Now the homosexuals are mad at him.

Should Bush be impeached for this?

The picture failed to appear in my my last. Here is our president saluting the flag.

http://www.newshounds.us/2007/10/23/fox_friends_makes_a_big_deal_of_barack_obam_not_putting_his_hand_over_heart_during_national_anthem_but_bush_made_his_own_mistake.php#more

I guess it's true, the way to bush's heart is through his stomach!

Let's not forget Dennis Hastert's wonderful rendition of the Anthem.

A President should be patriotic and not idiotic.  OBama shoild understand that while it is not a lw one must place ones hand over ones heart to show his allegience to the country but it helps.  In fact all Presidents should follow the conventions of the office if they want to be elected to represent teh country.

To me itsa no brainer and Obama seems to be having a no brainer moment several times.

Yes, you MUST wear the ribbon, er..flag! 

"Alberto Gonzolas was wearing that flag pin the whole time he was shredding the Constitution."

-Barack Obama

 " To put it in rude, plain, unpalatable words- TRUE patriotism, real patriotism: loyalty, not to a Family and a fiction, but a loyalty to the Nation itself!

..... Remember this, take it to heart, live by it, die for it if necessary: that our patriotism is medieval, outworn, obsolete; that the modern patriotism, the true patriotism, the only rational patriotism, is LOYALTY TO THE NATION ALL THE TIME, LOYALTY TO THE GOVERNMENT WHEN IT DESRVES IT." 

                Mark Twain-1905 " The Czar's Soliloquy"   CT-2. p-378

 Wonder if Steve Dooooooooooooooooooooooo'cey ever read those words?

 - does Obama have some third act or omission planned to demonstrate that he's not falling for those corny, old-fashioned displays of patriotism? - Mark Finkelstein

I bought Obama's excuse on the flag pin...but it rings pretty hollow now...and he wants to lead the greatest free nation on earth...pretty sorry.

I am sorry to hear about your dumbed down syndrome. Pity that.

I honestly didn't think you were one of those folks Wes.  I gave you more credit than that.

Dittobitess - cons letting Rush tell them what to think.

Dumbed down syndrome - letting Finkelstein of Newsbusters, et al tell you what to think.

What, you bought it before you didn't buy it?

Where is Doocy's flagpin? I noticed quite a few people who are angry about Obama not wearing a flagpin aren't wearing one themselves.

Is the Right so shallow, so empty of substance that they can't attack Obama on the issues but only on symbols? The flag is just a symbol of our country, it isn't the country. The substance of our country is enshrined in our Constitution. I would rather Obama love the substance of the country and hate the symbol rather than love the shallow symbol and hate the substance. Instead of badgering Obama for how he does or doesn't salute the flag or wear one on his lapel, the right, like everyone else should look at how President Bush has wrapped himself in US flags and phony patriotism while gutting the substance of America -- the US Constitution. Real patriots are outraged by the Bush Administration's illegal wars, gutting of habeas corpus, illegal wiretapping, and use of torture and rendition, not whether or not Barack Obama salutes the flag in the right way or decorates his suit with enough lapel pins.

"Is the Right so shallow, so empty of substance that they can't attack Obama on the issues but only on symbols?"

Uhhh...yes?

Many people wore a flag lapel pin, especially after the Iraq War began.  About two or three years later when the War was going badly, I noticed that Donald Rumsfeld - yes, the Secretary of Defence - stopped wearing his pin.  I wonder: Did the War go badly when he stopped wearing his pin?         

That's why Iraq is such a mess...Jesus is punishing us for not wearing enough flag pins.

Barack HUSSEIN Obama said (see a TV clip from New Hampshire campaign stop) that "Americans are not interested in presidential candidate's middle name" when asked why he seems never using that.

Well, not only after 9-11, buts at least since the firts Gulf War to have the same (middle) name as especially in the US not so popular dictator, Saddam Hussein, doesn't help, certaiinly in gaining willing voters.

The fact is that Sen. Obama has much, much more of Muslim, Islam background than he would be eger to share at campaign stops and debates.

First: His late father (died in car accident) was aMuslim from Kenya. He also gave him Arabic names, i.e. the fisrst, the middle na last name. Yes, linquistically Obama and Osama are from the same kernel. How much of islamic culture, orientation, religious belief his father gave him? Sem. Obama is not saying, how far he goes to honor all these fundamental aspects of his father of who he (and his eager supporters) pile up only praise of hard work and achievement. One can safely bet that his father being a Muslim, educated man, he had a significant imp-act on Sen. Obama, even as a reflection (as his mother, Kansas born American, divorced him when her son was 2 yrs old)

2) Profound Muslim and Islamic influences do not end with Sen. Obama's Arabic names, where Hussein is not only Saddam's but of a prominent Shia saint. His Mom, clearly strong influence on Sen Obama, was so meshmerized by Islam and Nuslim men that she re-maried a Muslim: and Indonesian student. Therefore young Barack lived for several years in Jakarta, the capital city of the LARGEST Muslim country in the world, Indonesia where he also attended madrassa, sorry a school. Again, how much of influence his Muslim stepfather, his Islam favoring mother, his life and schooling in Indonesia with overburdening presence of Islam had? Sen Obama keeps uncharacteristically quied.

 Sertainly he doesnt show any "pride" in his Muslim, Islam background and heritage. Unlike Oprah or African-American organisations and lobbies, no Muslim leaders or organizations appeal to him (not at least publically) "do not ACT WHITE", act Muslim as your background is. While he is careful to use his black ethnicity when he calculates it might be advantageous, so far (anyway) he didn't calculate that drawing attention to his Aranic names, his Muslim upbringing, experience and background can be tranformed into extra percents of vote preferences.

Maybe, our liberal friend and media spielers can help with attempts how to make the fact that he has so profoundly Arabic middle name, also like Saddam, that (at least linguistically, if culture etc matter) Obama is close to Osama, that his father and stepmother were Muslims, that his Mom choosed Muslim husbands repeatedly, also living in predominantly Muslim country, ... how all this tranform to some "let all of us get along"  and proudly sell that Sen. Obama is not only first (half) black American with chance to be party VP nominee, by far most sucessful black American presidential candidate, but that in him, if Hillary wins and selects him a VP, we might have in him firs Arabic name, Muslim-background VP. What a historical milestone to aim for!

Appreciate all of the work, Therightone.

Are you aware that our current Vice Presidents name is a synonym for penis, and his full first name is the same as Richard "The Night Stalker" Ramirez'?

Maybe a topic for your next incoherent essay.

And GWB's last name is the word for ... uh, you know.

Sounds like someone's a bigot. 

Good Lord, how can these people not cringe in embarrassment?  Couldn't they get real jobs?

Obama "kicked his lapel pin to the curb"??? Uh hello, he hasn't worn it for years.

Now tell us how many GOP candidates wear lapel pins?  One.  Rudy "9/11" Giulianni.  That's right.   Mitt Romney doesn't wear one.  McCain? Nope.  Huckabee? Nope.  Thompson?  Once in awhile, mostly not.

Where's the outrage?

 Oh that's right, they're saving it for the day Obama forgets to make another empty gesture.